What the HELL is Happening With my Paint ? |
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 6:57pm |
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Went fishing today ,, yes I caught some , but my lure started cracking up !!!! Sick of this c.r,a,p !!!!
I use auto acrylics ,, then clear coat with about 4 coats . Here is a pic of a lure that spent a few hours in the water |
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Lofty
Stall Holder Esoteric Lures Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Jerseyville Status: Offline Points: 1521 |
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It looks to me that you have a under coat or primer that is incompatable with the paint,the undercoat to me seems to be rejecting the paint ,which in turn cracks the paint and the clear which inturn lets water in and the paint lifts but the under coat is still intact,just a thought. Lofty |
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Tincan
Senior Member Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Location: Albury N.S.W Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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Jeff what brand paint did you use for the base ?
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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The undercoat/primer has come off as well
I use an Acrylic filler/primer , then spray the colours on , then "TRY" to seal with 3-4 coats of clear . I use Supercheap Auto paints . Maybe I need to use 10 clear coats ???? After this C.R,a.P ,,,,,, I feel like giving up making lures !!!!!!!!! |
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oog663
Stall Holder Oogs Lures Joined: 12 Dec 2009 Location: Tenterfield NSW Status: Offline Points: 526 |
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Jeff are the cracks in the undercoat as well ? and do you swim the lures before you paint or seal them, meaning bare timber ?
Steve
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Tincan
Senior Member Joined: 24 Feb 2011 Location: Albury N.S.W Status: Offline Points: 517 |
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All part of learning Jeff, how did you seal the lure before applying the base coat, do you seal the lure before you swim test lures ?
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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Jeff
If you are using acrylic lacquer undercoats and acrylic lacquer paint and clear coat, you shouldn't be having that problem unless water is getting into the timber, causing it to swell.
What sort of timber are you using? White Beech, Brown Beech and Aust Red Cedar are reasonably stable when the timber gets wet, whereas timbers like jelutong swell up and cause major paint cracking. Most of my lures are made from Aust Red Cedar and I have never used timber sealers. They do get dipped in acrylic lacquer undercoats 5-6 times over a 5 day period, which allows a lot of wet & dry sanding to get a smooth finish.
The Little Digger, below, is about 17-18 years old. I got it snagged in the Mole River, when the river was running fast and high, broke the line and left it there. Darren Mitten found it about 12 months later, still connected to the snag during a dry period. It spent a fair bit of time under water and some time hanging in the heat and cold of Tenterfield. The lure is made from Aust Red Cedar and the paint has hung in pretty well, with some cracking.
The Merlin, below, is one of the original prototypes that John Bennett sent to Peter Newell, about 20 years ago. It's made from Jelutong (green/yellow lure) and painted with acrylic lacquers, like all my other lures. You can see what happens when moisture gets into the jelutong.
Hopefully, it won't be hard to put a finger on the problem that you are having, but we'll need some more info. Type of timber used, whether you tank test prior to undercoating, whether water can get into your lure after painting (can be a problem with lexan bibs glued in after painting).
Cheers
Travers
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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Good morning fellas ,, I have calmed down a bit now
This particular lure did get swim tested as a bare wood , Pine is the wood by the way . It was then left for two days in the sun ,then undercoated and painted, it was fine until yesterday when it went swimming . I am thinking that maybe there is a spot where the glue didnt cover when the Lexan bib went in and water has got in , making it swell . I am going to clear coat the c.r/a;p out of the rest of my lures as I couldnt stand it happening to all of them . I might even stick to alloy bibs as well . Cheers Jeff |
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Timber King Lures
Unverified New Member Joined: 26 Nov 2009 Location: Barra country Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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I don't know about pine, but 2 days drying is plenty with cedar. I tune all of my bib towed lures, prior to undercoating - after the araldite has properly hardened, I tank test the lures, let them dry for a day or two and then give them a final sanding prior to painting. I don't get the paint cracking problem.
I'm not a big fan of lexan bibs, so I don't use them. If you change to aluminium bibs, glue them in at the same time as the eyelets. I notice that some members glue their aluminium bibs in after painting the lure, like the lexan bibs - which you would have to do if you want an unpainted bib.
Best advice is to start using some better luremaking timber. Should be plenty of old cedar in some of the buildings at Gulgong. Sunday morning .... off to church . They won't notice a pew under your arm on the way out.
Cheers
Travers
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JD LURES
Unverified New Member JD/Eddy Lures Joined: 21 Jul 2010 Status: Offline Points: 156 |
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Frustration and lure making go hand in hand im afraid Jeff.
My advice, and as mentioned, get rid of the pine mate, its terrible stuff to make lures with in my opinion. ( some may be successfull with it but not me )
Cedar would be my choice.
Now, if you are tank testing BEFORE painting then here is a little tip that helped me out.
Go into the hobby shop and grab a can of model airoplane dope and grab some acetone from the hardware.
Thin down some of the dope to make it watery and brush it onto your wood blank.
It dries very quickly so wack two good coats on.
The dope is a sealing and shrinking agent and will absorb into the cedar not only helping to seal it but harden it also.
It will also lift the grain when it dries so your lure can be sanded to a nice finish.
Get it in EVERYWHERE, bib slots etc then put your bib in, if you can dip the lure in this solution even better.
To paint
Primer filler is good stuff but ive found its a little thick to put straight onto timber alone.
Give the lure a hit with just normal acrylic primer first as its thinner and gets more bite onto the timber.
You can then use your filler primer to get a nice smooth body.
Any auto acrylic paint from this point on should be fine but stick with one system, ie finnish with either acrylic clear or even better if you can afford to Acrylic clear two pack.
I know the paint shops will tell you not to mix standard acrylic with two pack but its just the done thing in lure making and it works.
If your using standard acrylic clear for you final coat then two or three coats is good but remember even though these paints dry fast there true hardening off period takes a few days to get to.
In my view though mate, swimming bare blanks before painting is a strict NO NO.
Much to peoples surprise I still tinker with timber and balsa lures and have done for years and all my Urethane models start from timber profiles so ive played around a bit.
Others that make in large scale from timber would obviously have ther secrets to success but these tips are just what ive found.
JD
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Seaweed
LureLovers.com Fanatic née Capt.Seaweed Joined: 23 Jan 2011 Location: Darwin N.T. Status: Offline Points: 3124 |
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G'day Jeff, I agree with Travers, think it's your choice of timber rather than paints. Learning curve for sure.
Travers is right about the Jetulong, I had a beautiful mint Relli-Doc Barra that I never swam, the paint just cracked thru to the bare timber in the Topend humidity, where it hung in my home. I think Rob was upset this happened to lures he made from Jetulong, not using it again. Regards, Tony.
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"Always Merry and Bright"
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7933 |
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plenty of good advice here Jeff i'm with the others when it comes to pine although if its sealed properly it should be o.k,Red Cedar is my choice of timber but i also use willow and silky oak occasionally and havent had any troubles yet.You should try the model aircraft dope as suggested
by J.D my father in law uses it on his pine lures and they seem to hold up ok
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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Cheers fellas , I will take all this info on board
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tooch
LureLovers.com Fanatic Twitchy Lures Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Location: windsor nsw Status: Offline Points: 3450 |
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Hi jeff, I really feel for you mate..
Pine is one of the worst timbers to use for lures
unless it is very old and compleatly dry the moisture
in it and the sap content combine and forces the moisture to the outside of the Timber
I think that's half of your trouble there..
I don't put any kind of sealer on my timber only 3 good coates of white Acrylic paint
and I don't get any cracking or peeling or anything related to it....
I wouldn't go over board on the clear either Because too many coates will make the clear go milky.. I usually put three good thick coats of clear on my lures and the finish comes out like
Glass and it doesn't peel.. I hope you haven't taken my post the wrong way
as I am only trying to put forward to you the way I learnt from making the same mistakes...
so mate stick at it don't give up and if you need some advice don't be afraid to ask.......Pete.
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Bigriver
Stall Holder Kneller Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: Northern Rivers Status: Offline Points: 1359 |
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Everyone who was ever silly enough to carve a lure has gone thru the swollen lure/cracked paint nightmare. White Beech and Red Cedar will go along way to getting rid of it. What actually happens is the paint can handle a small amount of expansion and contraction, it is sudden expansion that makes the paint crack. It is not actually water getting in that causes the cracks to a certain degree. You will find that this will raise it's head more in Autumn and Winter, when the water temp is warmer than the air temp. The lure (wood is a natural substrate) and will contract with cold air temperature, when it is swum in water warmer than it, it expands too quick for the paint to handle. Try an experiment of putting a lure in the freezer then drop it in luke warm water. And as the others said "Ditch the Pine!" And don't use heart wood either as it will often do the same thing, good luck, cheers Paul.
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Lofty
Stall Holder Esoteric Lures Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Location: Jerseyville Status: Offline Points: 1521 |
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I agree with all the advice given in its entirety one other problem with Pine it holds resin and wax these will tend to reject paints over a period . Lofty |
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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I will ditch the Pine and get some Cedar to start again .
I threw one of my other lures in the fish tank yesterday and just took it out this morning , and it is fine |
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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OK , scored some Western Red Cedar from the local joinery , for FREE So I am off on another journey and will see how things hold up now
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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Jeff, be careful with WRC, it can be a bit brittle at times. WRC is actually a coniferous tree from the cypress family Cupressaceae, native to western USA, not a true Cedrus member. It will carve well and paint will adhere to the open grain.
Pre-drill any screw holes and I would suggest making your tail eyelet with an extra long twist. If you are making the same shape as the lure at the start of this thread, the only suggestion I have is to drill the nose eyelet hole through the bib and back into the body as possible. If the bib is of large size the pressure on the bib may make the head split off in line with the bib slot. Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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I'd be more concerned with the health warnings about Western Red Cedar dust. It can be a bit of a health issue, so be careful. "Western Red Cedar occupies a particular place in hazard awareness because it contains the irritant chemical plicatic acid. Plicatic acid is most concentrated in western red cedar, but it is also found in significant quantities in eastern white cedar and japanese cedar. Plicatic acid is believed to be the causative agent in western red cedar dust-induced asthma".
Also, the WRC has soft and hard grains, so the finished lure tends to have a rippled surface. It's actually a very interesting effect, but worth being aware of it before you make heaps of lures and wonder what's going on.
Good luck with it
Travers
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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And here we go again
EXACTLY what CEDAR should I use ? |
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Powelly
Stall Holder Powell Lures Joined: 16 Feb 2010 Location: Port Macquarie Status: Offline Points: 2196 |
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Travers
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7933 |
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old window frames are quite often aussie red cedar or silky oak which is a good timber for lures too,you can see these for sale in demolition yards and in the classifieds in the paper on the weekends.ive been cheating lately buying the $11 cricket sets from sams warehouse ,you can whack the wickets on the lathe for poppers and paddlers and cut the bats up to make smallish cod lures ,cheap willow but very nice to carve.
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Darby
Stall Holder Fishaholic Lures Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Location: Brisbane Status: Offline Points: 7477 |
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Jeff, pm me your address and I'll pop some Red and Spanish cedar and some bits of Silky Oak in the post for you to play with. Us try hard lure carvers need to stick together
Brad |
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"If you are going to have fun with your rod.. get some wood
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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Thanks heaps fellas
Darby , thanks mate , I will PM you my address |
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CircleVbaits
Stall Holder CircleVbait Lures Joined: 12 Oct 2010 Location: U.S.A. Status: Offline Points: 1780 |
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Hello Jeff, I use 2 coats of "Flex-Coat" after the paint dries and I have never experienced this problem. It takes longer and a little more expensive but is is worth it. You must measure the two parts and mix for 5 minutes for best results, each coat must dry overnight. I have some lures that I have fished with for several years and the paint has not been touched.
The best to Y'all,
Verlon
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Baitman
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7933 |
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Verlons lures do have an exceptionally hard finish
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puglee62
Stall Holder Fugly Lures Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: ipswich Status: Offline Points: 7933 |
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Jeff
LureLovers.com Fanatic Joined: 08 Mar 2011 Location: Gulgong NSW Status: Offline Points: 1611 |
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Thankyou very much fellas ,, I am humbled by your generosity It is very much appreciated I wont forget you
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